- VN#55 Opinion Poll -
"OLDSKOOL MULTIPLATFORMING"
Edited by Jonatan "Macx" FG.


The editor of this chapter recently visited Datastorm 2011 in Gothenburg, Sweden. For those who have failed to grasp the ideology behind this venue is it a multiplatform winterparty for machines with soul. Datastorm boast being northern Europe’s largest Amiga-party and 2nd largest c64-party today. The computers available for the demo compo are besides c64 and Amiga (excluding PPC), SNES, GBA, GBC, NDS, Dreamcast, PSX, PSP, PC-Engine, Neo Geo Pocket, Sega Master System and Sega Megadrive with backup/flash-units. Other platforms (except PC, Mac and Nextgen Consoles) are welcome to release in the democompo, but then the demo crew will have to bring their own equipment. If you are into the VIC-20, Atari, MSX, DTV, PET or Plus/4 demoscenes, Datastorm would be the obvious place in Scandinavia to release your stuff and mingle amongst friends in the wintertime.

The very liberal "almost all included" orientation is well known in the 21st century of kalsongdatapartying in Sweden. Little Computer People has somewhat the same theory and it is perhaps only Floppy that stand out amongst the computer parties in Sweden as being more conservative and excluding towards other platforms. No political or religious analogies are going to be made here, but the author believe it would have been hilarious.

At the same time it has become more easy for the novice to become introduced to machines that because of the nature of things were much more isolated not so long ago. These days, with the invention of online videos, even installing an emulator can be regarded as obsolete for those lazy enough. For this reason the demo art produced on various platform is made available to a wider audience. But are old farts like ourselves capable of switching between machines in a faster pace than we change underwear? And is that at all where this tendency leads to? An opinion poll on the matter was due!


The following questions were posed on the ascii votesheets for VN#55:

* Reactions to Datastorm 2011?

* Does emulators and online videos make us all oldskool multiplatform and is it geek or bad?

* Is the scene more vital now than in 2000 and what will it look like in 2020?

* What platforms do you play with yourself?

The comments are presented in an order where the most important sceners are randomly mixed with the less important sceners. Enjoy.

 

Sixx / Genesis Project
What has Datastorm to do with emulators and YouTube? We are 1) an Amiga-party, 2) a c64-party, and 3) a party for de old skoool (= console) platforms that does not have a home anywhere else.

Fraternisation amongst the different scenes is a good thing as the c64-scene is dominating, vital and a great example for the half dead formats Amiga and Console.

In 2020 I hope the Amiga-scene has an own home on the internet and a more alive scene.

Wii and PS3 are two consoles amusing to work with!

 

RadiantX / Panda
Datastorm 2011 was awesome, a really great effort by all involved, not the least SceneSat, who aren't noticed much at the party but really are the face outwards to some 80-90 people who listen during the compos.

I wasn't really around in 2000 so I don't know if the scene's more vital now or not. The C64 scene could be. The
other platforms - probably not. I think the scene in 2020 will look like it does now except a bit smaller and everyone will be 10 years older. Sad but true.

You know what platform(s) I play with!

 

anonymous voter
In the Fairlight demo released at Datastorm the coders had the intention of greeting Genesis Project, but Bacchus specifically forbade this in a phonecall to the main coder with the words: "Under no circumstances should FLT greet Genesis!". Genesis Project are not mentioned amongst the groups in the greeting scroller in the demo, but less known groups are. The G*P-members are however personally greeted in the end upscroller, and this begs the question of whether this is OK with Bacchus or if his opinion was not consulted on this second matter.

 

Conjuror / [O]
Emulators and cross platform development encourage innovation and speed up development times in a period where we all have more responsibilities and less time. 

They allow you faster builds, viewing and external debugging tools like the VICE debugger and ICU64 make problem tracking so such easier.  Ok these tools could be created an attached to a real c64 but modern development environments allows these to be created much more quickly and its great to have multiple windows.

Myself, I develop using Kick Assembler, VICE and Eclipse on a Windows PC. This combination has allowed me to think well beyond what I thought of as the limits back in 1989. Of course my owns skills have improved significantly since then, but working with a scripting language with which I can process all sorts of calculations before generating the code opens up possibilities I never even considered. When I first returned and tried to make effects and seeing what others had achieved I nearly ran away screaming, with a bit of adjustment and some experimentation I'm looking forward to creating some original effects and productions.

I can't comment on the difference between the activity of the scene in 2000 and now, but from what I've seen over the last 2 years, each party brings more demos, new effects and technical innovations. With more people returning to scene to push the limits further and become part of this most exciting scene, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon. 

 

Bepp / Triad
Cool partyplace, couldn’t be better. Extremely good 24h service! Social activities overweigh technical ;-). Much love.

Emulators and videos help the scene reach out, both to a new audience and also by making it more accessible. Nowadays you can watch demos on your mobile phone which is cool. Videos definitely make us multi-platform. I never saw a GameBoy demo before YouTube, wasn’t even aware there was a scene at all ;-). We love all platforms, but 8bit is in the heart.

I wouldn’t say it’s more vital (now than in 2000 - ed.), but the focus may have changed since we were young. From being more of a technical focus, I’d say nowadays it’s more a social focus. And the chance to escape from the everyday life with family duties ;-). In 10 years I doubt there will be any releases, and what’s left is a group of old men reminiscing old times.

C64.

V-12 / Tropyx
You cannot call yourself oldskool'er if you use only or mostly emulators and other things which are not related to real hardware. I think that emulators and online videos (of course grabbed from real hardware!) are still good things for people which from many reasons don't have real thing. Thanks to them we can show our demos to people from other platforms with recommendations to watch them on real thing because of better quality ;). Emulators are also good for those, who wants for example to play in some games etc. But this way of acting is almost nothing about oldskool platform. Also it's so sad that so many people jumps into emulators for producing some stuff or what is more worse - pc software (gfx conversions for example). For sure, real thing is da best and I'm glad that still there are many people who loves real C64! ;)

 

Goto80 / HT
I play with some different platforms (mostly Amiga and C64, but GBC and vic20 in the past). It comes pretty natural, atleast soundwise, to explore other low-tech gadgets. The C64-scene is exceptionally strong,
but that can also have negative sides; self-referentialism & inbreed, unnecessary conservatism & few newcomers. Although there are many new chipmusicians all the time, most of them don't choose the C64. For one reason or another.

Most people seem to work in emulators & cross-assemblers, which I think is a predictable development. But it will no doubt make it easier to merge different 8-bit subcultures together.

 

Magic / Nah-Kolor
c64 amiga pc nintendo ds ps3

 

MdZ / Ramb
No comment (on whether it is geek or bad - ed.).

No. In 2020 the scene will be the same - most of us still work 40h/week. They year when most sceners goes on pension then the c64 scene will have rivival for 10-15 years, and then c64 scene dies with us. I expect c64 scene will be alive for 40 years more, so 2050 is the end of it.

C64, Amiga, Wii, PC.

 

DeeKay / Crest
I think the Scene is more lively and active than in 2000, there's quite a few really good old people coming back or
people switching over from other platforms. Also, there's a lot of tools on the PC side these days that make demo development way easier, be it for the coder, msxian or gfxian! I don't know what it will look like in 2020, but there will still be active people around, with the c64 being the best-selling computer of all time there is not a
shortage of hardware to be expected! ;-)

I am mainly focused on c64, but I do stuff on other platforms occasionally, predominantly on consoles. I've done
gfx for Farbrausch PC- and Spöntz Mac-demos, I've also worked on PSX-, PS2-, Gamecube-, Nintendo DS- andGBA productions.

 

Richard / TND
Emulators and online videos of the oldskool platform does make us more oldskool. :)

It really depends on how much interest the C64 people for the C64 scene. :o) 

Commodore 64 and PC (But only oldschool type of games, as I can't stand those 3D worlds nor can I focus on them without getting dizzy after 10 mins or so).

 

Jak T Rip / DMAgic / Protovision
I think the scene was a nicer space back then when we were swapping disks with personalized notes and I respect everyone still keeping up the snailmail scene a lot. But the glory days of that are gone, and when taking that as a given I think that watching multiplatform demos is a good addition, as well it makes it easier to reach others who haven't heard of the scene. I personally use C64 emulators only for testing purposes and to make others interested. As a real scener, replacing the machine with an Emu is not an option I believe. All of the above is not geek or sexy, it is just using the media we have in this time and age, which is rather mainstream.

Yes, it is more vital (now than in 2000 - ed.). The scene has lost members in big scale two times: At the beginning of the 90's, when the C64 was regarded as outdated and at the end of the 90's, when scene communication moved into the internet and many sceners started their jobs or families in real life. Since then, the scene has regained strength again, more and more newbees and oldies are getting active again, and the bar for quality was raised beyond the imagination we had in 2000. The scene is still shaped to a large degree by people who remember the times when the C64 was modern. When they fade away I think the scene will again be shaken by big losses and only a few geeks will carry on.

I am only active on the C64. Once I tried to write a program that could work on both atari 8bit and C64 - but failed. I watch videos of demos from other 8bit systems (zx, atari, vic20, msx) and play games with emulated 8bit video game systems of all sorts, especially megadrive as the graphic mode is like koala with more colours.

 

Oswald / Resource
Life and technical advances can not be stopped. These things make our lives easyer, I dont see anything wrong with it. I think we are on about the same level as in 2000, or maybe slightly higher? No idea, should check the CSDb stats for that. :) I dont really venture into other platforms. The SNES got my attention though, its an amazing piece of HW, and those games. WOW! :)

 

Hedning / G*P
So much nice people! Really nice place - it combines ugly and nice wall artwork to a complete twisted mishmash of inspirational atmospheres. I would like to see more entrys in the compos though. That was better last year. Datastorm is needed. I think two swedish parties (LCP and Datastorm) a year is needed to keep the scene alive.

Emulators suck for performances when it counts, but is vital for everyday use. You can't sit very comfortable on the tube with your C64 enjoying demos. It's also good for new ideas and smooth development. It's not geek if you use it for that purpose, and for preservation.

The scene is strong, and history tells us that c64 will prevail, even if the total number of coders are pretty low. That is my only questionmark: what happens when no fresh blood can be inserted in the scene aorta? It's easier with gfx- and sid-dudes. I still hope that we will have homes for old sceners when we are 60+, a true Gubbdata place where we can have compos every saturday. :D

Mostly c64 and Atari ST, but also Amiga 600 and 1200.

 

Taper / Triad
The scene is at least as vital as in 2000! I think we'll still be here in 2020, what else is there to do really? I don't use emulators much, so I don't wanna comment on that. However, I play around a bit with different "retro" platforms and constantly have some amigas and older consoles hooked up, but I'm just a spectator on other platforms. The c64 scene is where I do active stuff only.

 

Here the VN#55 Opinion Poll ends. The author leaves it to the reader to conclude any analysis.

To make sure you receive the votesheet with the included poll in time for the next issue, send an email to yours truly.