THE DEMOSCENE PRESERVED FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS
Jakob Moesgaard, Department of Legal Deposit at the Royal Library of Denmark, interviewed by Jonatan "Macx" FG (www.jonatanforsberg.net)

Published in Vandalism News issue 52 - Syntax DemoParty Edition (http://onslaught.c64.org/)

When trying to explain our subculture to people who have no conception of what the scene is about, one often ends up telling overlapping stories which may give approximations of it all. But one often is left with a feeling of how little the receiving part understands. I guess this partly has got to do with that the C64 scene is a genuine culture, with parallel lines of history and with continuity since at least the mid 1980s. It is not a retro scene consisting of only new people on an old machine, thus only attracting certain people of narrow cultivation, but rather a hotchpotch of everything in-between and including those who have been around for decades and those more recently having been attracted to an old computer. We are a scene with people from all different walks of life. When we meet up, the crippled and poor raise a glass with the rich and successful. Also in this aspect, in a dividing world, our subculture is worth celebrating.

But what will happen when the last C64 nerd is no more (unless in a Kurzweillian manner, his or hers sentence is somehow uploaded to cyberspace and consequently carried on extracorporeally), is that the end to knowledge of the miniature civilisation we have nurtured and served?

I welcome Jakob Moesgaard to the magazine. You work at the Department of Legal Deposit under the Danish Royal Library, please introduce yourself and explain what your work has got to do with C64 releases.

- Thank you Macx. As you mentioned I work in the Department of Legal Deposit to which publishers and printers are obliged to deposit 2 copies of all published Danish works for preservation in our national collections. Since 1998 certain forms of computer software, namely games and other interactive software, have been included in the Danish legislation for Legal Deposit. We are now trying to broaden our perspective on software as part of our national heritage, thus our interest in contemporary releases for heritage platforms such as the C64. We are also trying to establish a network to help us collect material published prior to 1998 since our collection of pre-1998 material is fairly small.

The primary reason for doing this now is that a lot of the older media types (disks, tapes, cd-roms, etc.) have a limited life expectancy. If nothing is done within the next decade or so, we risk losing the entire beginnings of the "digital age" to bit rot and similar data-degrading mechanics.

 

Are we talking both demos and cracks (i.e. illegal copies of games)?

- In principle the legislation for Legal Deposit includes all "legally published materials". In my personal opinion all demos and cracktros are worthy of the term "cultural heritage" – the illegal copies of the games themselves is more of a touchy issue. We are still considering different possibilities.

 

What exactly are you doing with the releases, how are they preserved? Are there certain criteria for what is being opted out for embalmment?

- We already have a very high standard for digital preservation. Until now we have focused mainly on preserving digitized copies of analogue material (i.e. books, images, and other printed matter) and the Danish part of the internet which we "harvest" four times a year. The data is stored on a series of servers in different physical locations and we continually run different consistency checks to ensure the integrity of the data. In order to securely preserve C64 software, for instance, we would transfer the information bit-for-bit to these specially maintained digital archives. We would also apply various metadata to ensure the usability of the material for future generations. There is no way I (or we) could possibly decide what material will be relevant or interesting to future researches and users of The Royal Library. The only limiting condition that is imposed is that the material should be related to Denmark or Danish culture in some way.

 

The scene has from its very beginning been an international community with groups having members from all over the world. Prior to the internet was a big thing we communicated globally through mail swapping, bulletin boards and phone conferences. With that in mind, despite the fact that Denmark always has been one of the bigger scene countries, will not a focus on strictly Danish productions run a risk of becoming arbitrarily brusque?

- Yes it will. The whole idea of Legal Deposit and national collections comes from an era where no one could predict the degree of international cooperation and globalization we have today. Unfortunately we have to limit our efforts in some ways, and the aspect of nationality comes into play, arbitrary as it might seem. We are, however, working closely with national libraries from all over the world that share a similar interest in preserving our digital cultural heritage, and hopefully we will be able to establish a global network of digital collections for the benefit of all of us.

 

What is your own notion of the scene, and were you ever involved in it?

- When I was younger I was very fascinated by the fantastic digital creations for the C64 and especially the Amiga (sorry). I never really had any skills to warrant my participation, and I consider myself a grateful "consumer" of demos & intros rather than a real member of the scene. My fascination holds on to this day, though I must confess I often use online video sites to view current creations, rather that firing up my old systems at home.

 

The Danish Royal Library recently held an event where you introduced the public to an exhibit of the "digital cultural heritage" that received some attention in the press. Can you tell us of the event, and how it was received by the audience?

- On September 20th we celebrated the 10th anniversary of the "Black Diamond", the newest part of our Royal Library building here in central Copenhagen. A few colleagues and I figured that it would be a great opportunity to present to the guests our idea of retroactively collecting and preserving heritage software as well as contemporary material. We collaborated with a Danish game designer education called DADIU (www.dadiu.dk) and the only Danish computer game museum, Spilmuseet (.dk).

Spilmuseet brought in several old gaming platforms (C64, A500, Saturn, etc.) and games in order to give the audience an authentic gaming experience. We, on the other hand, presented the same games to the audience in a converted and emulated form on modern desktop computers. We did this to emphasize the difference between preserving an authentic experience (as Spilmuseet does) and the "raw" information (as we do).

I think our exhibition was very well received – some of the older Danish game designers showed up, among them "Sodan" (Vikings, Sword of Sodan, etc.) and Kevin Mikkelsen (Way of the Little Dragon, Persian Gulf Inferno, etc.) who were really pleased to see the creations of their youth termed "national cultural heritage."

 

Will the "digital cultural heritage" exhibit be something permanent in the Royal Library, or how will the public be able to appreciate the releases you preserve in the future?

- Not in the form it was presented at the anniversary. We are currently working with several other national libraries in creating a stable, multi-system emulator platform which we will use in future presentations of the material. Due to copyright restrictions access to our digital software databases will probably be restricted to a few dedicated computers on location at The Royal Library. Perhaps we will consider more of an open model for PD and Open Access-material.

 

There is amazing effort being put into preserving the history and legacy of the scene on the Commodore 64. Demos, cracks, disk magazines, SIDs, graphics, etcetera, are being dug up, categorized, organized and debated. Some of these projects are quite thorough and arguably may deserve being saved for a future beyond the last C64 nerd - is it reasonable and probable that it will happen?

- The efforts of the C64 community in this regard are absolutely amazing and deserve heaps and heaps of praise. There is no way an institution like The Royal Library could do anything that comes even close to what is currently done in the scene. Whether or not these efforts will be preserved in the long run (50 years +) I don't know – I hope so. It is my hope that as much of the material from the C64 (and all the other legacy platforms) as possible will be preserved in one way or another, and I can only hope that it will be possible to establish sensible working relationships between our efforts and those of the community.

 

Are there any sceners helping you out? Can you tell us of which C64 sceners?

- Since we still have some way to go before we have a properly established collection and preservation strategy, we haven't been in touch with many sceners. We have collaborated quite a bit with MdZ who wrote a wonderful piece of database software and has helped us avoid certain pitfalls concerning bit-by-bit preservation of C64 software. MdZ gave a well-received presentation of his database software at the anniversary exhibit mentioned above.

 

Much of the scene history is not about releases, but has more of a biographical nature. In a few interviews in this magazine and in much of the contents of the disk magazine Recollection, the relations and context of the scene is being told from the perspectives of different individuals (or groups). As a person from the outside, do you find it interesting and can you at all relate to it?

- I can relate to some of it, though I must admit that can be difficult for an outsider to appreciate some of these stories. I have no doubt that the biographical nature of the scene's self-referential sense of history has been a factor in the establishing and maintenance of the scene culture. Without an appreciation of the personal contributions of so many individuals the scene couldn't have become what is was and is today. For future historians it will be prime source material for the unravelling of early digital culture.

 

If I mention the demos "Andropolis", "Deus Ex Machina" and "Tower Power", what are your immediate comments?

- I had to dig deep, but I remember "Tower Power" and "Deus Ex Machina" – especially Deus Ex made quite an impression on me. When I first watched it I hadn't seen a C64 for years, and it just blew me away. I had not heard about "Andropolis" until now but I find it very, very impressive.  All of these demos (and so many more) really proves the notion that art has little to do with the material but everything to do with the artist. The creativity and skill involved in creating these things really defies belief. It must have taken 100s of hours. I can't wait to see what the sceners of 2020 can pull out of the ol' breadbox.